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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Here's an update on this thread:

Nick McCabe sale of two beautiful items from my collection:
Gibson Gold Top Les Paul 57 VOS, bought 2007.
1966 Fender Princeton Reverb (Blackface).
Cat not included. Some gratuitous genuine McCabe noodle to go with the genuine McCabe sweat, genuine McCabe bucklerash etc.
Les Paul £3000 GBP, Fender Princeton, £750 GBP



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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:23 pm 
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http://www.gofundme.com/goldtop?fb_acti ... b_px%22%5D


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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:25 pm 
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A fan has set this up.


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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:50 am 
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I may be naive, but how is it possible that nick has to sell his gear to pay bills?

I know being in a band is not nearly as lucrative as it was in the days of everying buying vinyl and CDs,
but this does not seem possible.

I know the Verve was never Oasis, but still........


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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:43 pm 
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verve1995 wrote:
I may be naive, but how is it possible that nick has to sell his gear to pay bills?

I know being in a band is not nearly as lucrative as it was in the days of everying buying vinyl and CDs,
but this does not seem possible.

I know the Verve was never Oasis, but still........

Because the distribution of £££ from their biggest selling album, was somewhat disproportionate to their previous efforts.
Personally, I think it's a crying shame that he has to do this, just to fund his study at Uni.
My favourite rock stars should all have mansions, with accompanying swimming pools and umpteen garages with Ferraris in them etc. etc.
the reality is somewhat different, sadly.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:34 pm 
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TheWiganKebab wrote:
verve1995 wrote:
I may be naive, but how is it possible that nick has to sell his gear to pay bills?

I know being in a band is not nearly as lucrative as it was in the days of everying buying vinyl and CDs,
but this does not seem possible.

I know the Verve was never Oasis, but still........

Because the distribution of £££ from their biggest selling album, was somewhat disproportionate to their previous efforts.
Personally, I think it's a crying shame that he has to do this, just to fund his study at Uni.
My favourite rock stars should all have mansions, with accompanying swimming pools and umpteen garages with Ferraris in them etc. etc.
the reality is somewhat different, sadly.


It's a great shame.


Last edited by ANorthernSoul on Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:32 pm 
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verve1995 wrote:
I may be naive, but how is it possible that nick has to sell his gear to pay bills? I know being in a band is not nearly as lucrative as it was in the days of everying buying vinyl and CDs, but this does not seem possible. I know the Verve was never Oasis, but still........


Because his only income in the last twenty years has been from Urban Hymns and its tour, and the reunion tour and Forth. And whilst I don't know how much that all adds up to, it's a finite amount that's going to run low sooner or later.

Quote:
It's a great shame and I think this can be answered in two words: Jazz Summers. As soon as someone is looking out for one member and not the others, it's bound to spell trouble.


Let's not forget Richard has the majority of writing credits on the third album, and was the only one to have any commercial success between that and Forth.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:49 pm 
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WanderingSoul wrote:
Quote:
It's a great shame


Let's not forget Richard has the majority of writing credits on the third album, and was the only one to have any commercial success between that and Forth.


That was what I was alluding to, yes. Think it's 8/13 songs. But we've all heard what Ashcroft sounds like without Nick in particular. *Nick and Si were the taste-makers. Don't they deserve to have earned more from UH?

(*not underestimating Pete of course)

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Last edited by ANorthernSoul on Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:16 pm 
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ANorthernSoul wrote:
WanderingSoul wrote:
Quote:
It's a great shame and I think this can be answered in two words: Jazz Summers. As soon as someone is looking out for one member and not the others, it's bound to spell trouble.


Let's not forget Richard has the majority of writing credits on the third album, and was the only one to have any commercial success between that and Forth.


That was what I was alluding to, yes. Think it's 8/13 songs. But we've all heard what Ashcroft sounds like without Nick in particular. *Nick and Si were the taste-makers. Don't they deserve to have earned more from UH?

(*not underestimating Pete of course)


Without knowing exactly who got what, I don't want to judge whether they should have more, but however much the other members added, the fact remains that the fundamental chord progressions and accompanying lyrics of most of the Urban Hymns songs are Richard's work and that's why he has the credits for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:27 pm 
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Quote:
Let's not forget Richard has the majority of writing credits on the third album, and was the only one to have any commercial success between that and Forth.

>That was what I was alluding to, yes. Think it's 8/13 songs. But we've all heard what Ashcroft sounds like without Nick in particular. *Nick and Si were the taste-makers. Don't they deserve to have earned more from UH? (*not underestimating Pete of course)

Without knowing exactly who got what, I don't want to judge whether they should have more, but however much the other members added, the fact remains that the fundamental chord progressions and accompanying lyrics of most of the Urban Hymns songs are Richard's work and that's why he has the credits for them.


It seems like you're in agreement with a standard songwriting publishing deal.

I disagree regarding their input. When I listen to that album in particular (& it's possibly my least favourite of theirs) I hear the additional guitar melodies and counterpoint Nick adds and just the general support and creation of musical dynamics anthemic songs in particular need to survive and thrive. Without those elements, they're simply acoustic recordings - which I reckon wouldn't have sold anywhere near to the same amount.

(The exception of course is BSS - which Richard visualised and realised right from the start and is a truly stunning orchestrated piece of musical creation and arguably RA's greatest achievement)

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:45 pm 
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ANorthernSoul wrote:
I disagree regarding their input. When I listen to that album in particular (& it's possibly my least favourite of theirs) I hear the additional guitar melodies and counterpoint Nick adds and just the general support and creation of musical dynamics anthemic songs in particular need to survive and thrive. Without those elements, they're simply acoustic recordings - which I reckon wouldn't have sold anywhere near to the same amount.

(The exception of course is BSS - which Richard visualised and realised right from the start and is a truly stunning orchestrated piece of musical creation and arguably RA's greatest achievement)


I fully agree that the other members added a great deal and the album would be barely half what it is without them, but that's a still a matter of addition/improvement rather than creation from scratch.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:49 pm 
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WanderingSoul wrote:
ANorthernSoul wrote:
I disagree regarding their input. When I listen to that album in particular (& it's possibly my least favourite of theirs) I hear the additional guitar melodies and counterpoint Nick adds and just the general support and creation of musical dynamics anthemic songs in particular need to survive and thrive. Without those elements, they're simply acoustic recordings - which I reckon wouldn't have sold anywhere near to the same amount.

(The exception of course is BSS - which Richard visualised and realised right from the start and is a truly stunning orchestrated piece of musical creation and arguably RA's greatest achievement)


I fully agree that the other members added a great deal and the album would be barely half what it is without them, but that's a still a matter of addition/improvement rather than creation from scratch.


Richard, that you?

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:05 pm 
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ANorthernSoul wrote:
WanderingSoul wrote:
ANorthernSoul wrote:
I disagree regarding their input. When I listen to that album in particular (& it's possibly my least favourite of theirs) I hear the additional guitar melodies and counterpoint Nick adds and just the general support and creation of musical dynamics anthemic songs in particular need to survive and thrive. Without those elements, they're simply acoustic recordings - which I reckon wouldn't have sold anywhere near to the same amount.

(The exception of course is BSS - which Richard visualised and realised right from the start and is a truly stunning orchestrated piece of musical creation and arguably RA's greatest achievement)


I fully agree that the other members added a great deal and the album would be barely half what it is without them, but that's a still a matter of addition/improvement rather than creation from scratch.


Richard, that you?


What would you like me to say? That Urban Hymns is Nick McCabe's work of genius and that he should never have to earn a penny again because of that?

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:28 pm 
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WanderingSoul wrote:
ANorthernSoul wrote:

Richard, that you?


What would you like me to say? That Urban Hymns is Nick McCabe's work of genius and that he should never have to earn a penny again because of that?


Just a little joke there.

No, not at all (indeed in a Black Sub interview Nick referred to Urban Hymns as 'Richard's project') - my original point was that I think the band would have had a more harmonious time of it (other non-financial problems aside) if the credits had stayed as per ANS. I seriously doubt Richard started off intending to get rich at the expense of his friends and to a certain extent, their relationships. There was more than enough to go around but as soon as credits are attributed to one person it becomes a very black and white situation, no grey.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:02 pm 
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Quote:
No, not at all (indeed in a Black Sub interview Nick referred to Urban Hymns as 'Richard's project') - my original point was that I think the band would have had a more harmonious time of it (other non-financial problems aside) if the credits had stayed as per ANS. I seriously doubt Richard started off intending to get rich at the expense of his friends and to a certain extent, their relationships. There was more than enough to go around but as soon as credits are attributed to one person it becomes a very black and white situation, no grey.


I don't know what the cause of Richard and Nick's problems is, but I'd bet it's not something to do with songwriting credits.

I do wonder if it might've been better had Urban Hymns been a solo album, however. That way we wouldn't have the situation of The Verve and Richard's solo career eating into each other, one never quite able to escape the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:36 pm 
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WanderingSoul wrote:
Quote:
No, not at all (indeed in a Black Sub interview Nick referred to Urban Hymns as 'Richard's project') - my original point was that I think the band would have had a more harmonious time of it (other non-financial problems aside) if the credits had stayed as per ANS. I seriously doubt Richard started off intending to get rich at the expense of his friends and to a certain extent, their relationships. There was more than enough to go around but as soon as credits are attributed to one person it becomes a very black and white situation, no grey.


I don't know what the cause of Richard and Nick's problems is, but I'd bet it's not something to do with songwriting credits


People earning different money is not going to help in most situations.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:49 pm 
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ANorthernSoul wrote:
WanderingSoul wrote:
I don't know what the cause of Richard and Nick's problems is, but I'd bet it's not something to do with songwriting credits


People earning different money is not going to help in most situations.


Again, I don't know who got how much. But Nick clearly made enough to live comfortably with almost no other income for the longer part of the last decade.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:56 pm 
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WanderingSoul wrote:
Quote:
People earning different money is not going to help in most situations.


Again, I don't know who got how much. But Nick clearly made enough to live comfortably with almost no other income for the longer part of the last decade.


RA=8/12ths of X + a quarter (or a fifth - Tong) of 4/12ths of X (believe Neon Wilderness credited differently?)
The rest=a quarter (or a fifth) each of 4/12ths of X

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Last edited by ANorthernSoul on Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:16 pm 
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ANorthernSoul wrote:
WanderingSoul wrote:
Quote:
People earning different money is not going to help in most situations.


Again, I don't know who got how much. But Nick clearly made enough to live comfortably with almost no other income for the longer part of the last decade.


RA=8/13ths of X + a quarter (or a fifth - Tong) of 4/13ths of X (believe Neon Wilderness credited differently?)
The rest=a quarter (or a fifth) each of 4/13ths of X


Rolling People, CTB and Come On are credited to 'The Verve'. NW is credited to 'Nick McCabe, The Verve' (not sure why Nick is credited individually there). All other tracks are credited to 'Richard Ashcroft', though BSS has additional credits for 'Keith Richards, Mick Jagger'. If Richard is included in 'The Verve' this makes him the only person to be credited to every track.

But wouldn't the other members be paid for their work on all the tracks even though they aren't credited as songwriters? In financial terms, there wouldn't be any point in them playing on those tracks if they needed credits to be paid.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:44 pm 
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WanderingSoul wrote:
Quote:
Rolling People, CTB and Come On are credited to 'The Verve'. NW is credited to 'Nick McCabe, The Verve' (not sure why Nick is credited individually there). All other tracks are credited to 'Richard Ashcroft', though BSS has additional credits for 'Keith Richards, Mick Jagger'. If Richard is included in 'The Verve' this makes him the only person to be credited to every track.

But wouldn't the other members be paid for their work on all the tracks even though they aren't credited as songwriters? In financial terms, there wouldn't be any point in them playing on those tracks if they needed credits to be paid.


Sure someone else on here could answer that better than me - in general terms, not specifically about The Verve - but I reckon that's contractual stuff. It's my understanding you still get paid for playing on the tracks (at a sort of session-player rate) but songwriting/publishing is where all the money is.


Last edited by ANorthernSoul on Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:21 pm 
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A couple things - first, Urban Hymns was going to be an Ashcroft album, but Richard realized there was something missing, swallowed his pride and rang up Nick to ask him to return. And secondly,

WanderingSoul wrote:
NW is credited to 'Nick McCabe, The Verve' (not sure why Nick is credited individually there).


The story goes that the record was all but finished, but Richard was obsessing over a particular loop Nick had made (one of many he did when he returned - they told him to just play a bunch of stuff and he did - a good bit of which ended up being used on CTB, some spliced together and even used backward). Ashcroft built a song (if you can call it that) around it and it became Neon Wilderness, the last thing they worked on.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:13 pm 
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I've just read of the death of Jazz Summers. In light of that, I've edited my comments above and would urge Wandering Soul to do the same to reflect my edits. I was unaware of his illness at the time of writing and have no wish to speak ill of the dead. I will bear that in mind in future posts.

Jazz's part in the global success of the band was important as was his role in both reunions. RIP.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:28 pm 
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ANorthernSoul wrote:
I've just read of the death of Jazz Summers. In light of that, I've edited my comments above and would urge Wandering Soul to do the same to reflect my edits. I was unaware of his illness at the time of writing and have no wish to speak ill of the dead. I will bear that in mind in future posts.


Whilst I do admire your level of consideration, and thank you for bringing the news to attention, purging posts of critical comment simply due to the passing of the person in question is surely going a little too far. Should the same have been done after Allen Klein's death in 2009?

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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:09 pm 
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ANorthernSoul wrote:
I've just read of the death of Jazz Summers. In light of that, I've edited my comments above and would urge Wandering Soul to do the same to reflect my edits. I was unaware of his illness at the time of writing and have no wish to speak ill of the dead. I will bear that in mind in future posts.

Jazz's part in the global success of the band was important as was his role in both reunions. RIP.


Aw, that sucks. Rest in peace.


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 Post subject: Re: Nick selling his guitars and gear
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:08 am 
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WanderingSoul wrote:
ANorthernSoul wrote:
I've just read of the death of Jazz Summers. In light of that, I've edited my comments above and would urge Wandering Soul to do the same to reflect my edits. I was unaware of his illness at the time of writing and have no wish to speak ill of the dead. I will bear that in mind in future posts.


Whilst I do admire your level of consideration, and thank you for bringing the news to attention, purging posts of critical comment simply due to the passing of the person in question is surely going a little too far. Should the same have been done after Allen Klein's death in 2009?


Fuuuuuck Allen Klein.


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