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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:43 pm 
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Tresilaze wrote:
The reissue should be

1. UH
2. Olympic demos
3. B-sides
4. Outtakes
5. DVD with live stuff & videos

But that would show how important Nick was to that album, and I guess Ashcroft can't have that.


Of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:52 pm 
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6 O'Clock wrote:
Tresilaze wrote:
The reissue should be

1. UH
2. Olympic demos
3. B-sides
4. Outtakes
5. DVD with live stuff & videos

But that would show how important Nick was to that album, and I guess Ashcroft can't have that.


Of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:59 pm 
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"I'm gutted about fans not getting these tunes. That can be fixed though."

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:10 pm 
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Joe Col wrote:
"I'm gutted about fans not getting these tunes. That can be fixed though."

:O

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Thethirdreunion wrote:
Joe Col wrote:
"I'm gutted about fans not getting these tunes. That can be fixed though."

:O

@thirdreunion You seem happy about that. I am too.

But, since you hero worship RPA, how do you feel about the fact that the only way we'll hear these songs is if they are leaked for free by one of the other members of the band, who needs the money much more than RPA?

If that CD is leaked, I'll personally send Nick 15 squid and he can split it with Pete and Si

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And then he brings back the band for another new song that sounds more Andrew Lloyd Webber than titan of Britpop. It makes Ashcroft's farewell promise to return to our shores "soon" feel more like a threat than something to look forward to


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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:59 pm 
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jes wrote:
If that CD is leaked, I'll personally send Nick 15 squid and he can split it with Pete and Si


I second that pledge

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 Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thr
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Thethirdreunion wrote:
jes wrote:
Thethirdreunion wrote:
[quote="choonin_in"]We'd only have to listen to the song to ascertain who wrote it.

I'm not so sure about that. "Three Steps" appears as written by Ashcroft, and it doesn't sound Ashcroft-style at all.

Not sure why you think that, but it's credited to the Verve ... it came from the jamming sessions they did with Chris Potter after Nick returned


I read it years ago in Wikipedia.

"Three Steps" (Ashcroft) (produced by Chris Potter)"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Hymns[/quote]
Yeah, ashcroft probably made sure of that lol. Wiki is not everything

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 Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thr
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:48 pm 
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[quote="starsail]
Yeah, ashcroft probably made sure of that lol. Wiki is not everything

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/quote]
I almost sure that I've seen it in other place too... Nevermind.

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 Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thr
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:01 pm 
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Thethirdreunion wrote:
[quote="starsail]
Yeah, ashcroft probably made sure of that lol. Wiki is not everything

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/quote]
I almost sure that I've seen it in other place too... Nevermind.[/quote]


Discogs:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Verve-The-D ... se/1000797

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 pm 
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Trippy wrote:
jes wrote:
If that CD is leaked, I'll personally send Nick 15 squid and he can split it with Pete and Si


I second that pledge


I'd gladly send some money too. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:38 pm 
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Trippy wrote:

Can't imagine that Richard would want A Song for the lovers in there, as its one of his marquee solo tracks, and probably wouldn't want it affiliated with Verve.


Surely including demos of tracks that went on his first solo album would strengthen his claim that UH was "his" album as it shows the crossover? It'd fit his narrative that UH could have been a solo album.

Tresilaze wrote:

Do we know that the pre-Nick recordings won't be on there? They aren't great and show how important Nick was.


You said they were tracks with Nick after I enquired. And based on the leaked tracklisting, it was mostly post-Nick returning as no one recognises most of the titles. Properly mixed and those early demos would sound great. The instrumental Monte Carlo demo sounds fairly uninteresting and sonically crap, but mixed properly sounds fucking proper. Those demos are simply mixed pretty badly and no one would release them as is.

Joe Col wrote:

As for Richard not caring about unreleased material on the reissues prior, he views Urban Hymns quite differently than the first two albums. I don't believe for a second that he's not actively involved in this one when it comes to tracklistings & content.


I think everyone, including the band, is well aware of Richard's view on the album. It sounds like Nick took control of the tracklisting, and then Richard would either OK or reject it....... that doesn't sound like active involvement. Tell me otherwise. If he was actively involved from the start - how would it get to the point of him rejecting a whole disc of outtakes if he's been involved in compiling it and there was only an arguement over the credit on one song? Why would he be against including decent version of the heavily bootleged pre-Nick returning demos - more likely they simply weren't presented for possible release. Maybe the budget has already been blown on mixing what Nick selected.

I have no doubt Nick really wanted fans to hear this stuff - but it seems heavily weighed against the initial demo sessions and was always going to cause friction. As I said before, it looks like they're both acting the c*nt here.


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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:04 am 
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Of all the **** things RPA has done over the years, this is pretty close to being near the top. What an utter gobeshite, to use the British parlance.


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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:11 am 
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So someone refresh my memory, did Nick sign a clause to where he has no final say related to UH? I thought I heard something about nothing can really be done except by RPA's permission via a signature.

Jesus I already had a shitty day now I get this news. **** RPA forever, get rid of that fucking tosser in your avatar thethirdreunion.


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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:39 am 
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[quote="graceadelica"][quote="Trippy"]

Can't imagine that Richard would want A Song for the lovers in there, as its one of his marquee solo tracks, and probably wouldn't want it affiliated with Verve.


Surely including demos of tracks that went on his first solo album would strengthen his claim that UH was "his" album as it shows the crossover? It'd fit his narrative that UH could have been a solo album.

[quote="Tresilaze"]

Do we know that the pre-Nick recordings won't be on there? They aren't great and show how important Nick was.

You said they were tracks with Nick after I enquired. And based on the leaked tracklisting, it was mostly post-Nick returning as no one recognises most of the titles. Properly mixed and those early demos would sound great. The instrumental Monte Carlo demo sounds fairly uninteresting and sonically crap, but mixed properly sounds fucking proper. Those demos are simply mixed pretty badly and no one would release them as is.

[quote="Joe Col"]
As for Richard not caring about unreleased material on the reissues prior, he views Urban Hymns quite differently than the first two albums. I don't believe for a second that he's not actively involved in this one when it comes to tracklistings & content.

I think everyone, including the band, is well aware of Richard's view on the album. It sounds like Nick took control of the tracklisting, and then Richard would either OK or reject it....... that doesn't sound like active involvement. Tell me otherwise. If he was actively involved from the start - how would it get to the point of him rejecting a whole disc of outtakes if he's been involved in compiling it and there was only an arguement over the credit on one song? Why would he be against including decent version of the heavily bootleged pre-Nick returning demos - more likely they simply weren't presented for possible release. Maybe the budget has already been blown on mixing what Nick selected.

I have no doubt Nick really wanted fans to hear this stuff - but it seems heavily weighed against the initial demo sessions and was always going to cause friction. As I said before, it looks like they're both acting the c*nt here.

How is Nick acting like a ****? First off, we don't know if the Olympic demos will be included. Secondly, if the mixing budget was blown - which is baseless speculation - then how is there money to mix & master live tracks?

Richard put put kibosh on the disc because he wants sole credit for a band composition. He was denied that credit, so he refuses to let people hear the outtakes. He's the only one being a ****, and he's treating the people that he owes everything to like ****. **** him.

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:54 am 
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It's like Richard said in that Noisey interview, he doesn't want to give the impression that Nick had anything to do with the success of UH. So hey cut him out from trying to frame the narrative one way and don't let him shine on those outtakes/rarities.

Richard is putting up the farce it was all his creative genius and Nick just contributed to mild guitar flourishes, why undermine the ******** you've been telling the press about how UH was his first solo album proper. If Nick really got a say in what gets put into this deluxe edition of UH, Richard gets exposed as a fraud and you can't have that.

I'm not surprised by Richard doing this, it's just so frustrating as a fan that his bitterness and arrogance is getting in the way of hearing unreleased Verve music.


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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:35 pm 
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Alex wrote:
...get rid of that fucking tosser in your avatar thethirdreunion.


Nope. Image

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:12 am 
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It was a good point that RPA probably doesn't want any of the stuff he recorded solo to come out and muddy his claim to those songs, so I think it's fair to say Song For The Lovers, New York, C'mon People, Lord I've Been Trying, and Brave New World have little chance of release, good as they are. C'mon People especially should be on there since the band went so far as to feature it in that strange promo tape from before Nick came back, the problem is that the Verve version is so much better than the solo single.

Still a bunch of the Sympathy for the Demos stuff is just good pastoral pop that reflects well on his emerging songwriting and his preferred narrative-- Misty Morning June, Don't You Want Me, and some of the demos for what made the album. Ideally that would be on there with the stuff from Nick's leaked tracklist, a longer edit of Catching the Butterfly, and whatever else is in the vaults. Even a download link with a special edition so they don't have to press the CDs, it would be so easy...


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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:49 am 
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Sympathy For the demos should be there, as should outtakes from Nick's time. The contents for this release are so logical that tge fight over it is more annoying than the reason. This is a celebrated album with a great story - just tell the f*cking story. It's already been written ffs.


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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:25 am 
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From the urban demos songs would they release a better version of "don't you want me"? That song is soooooooo good. Many of the demos are phenomenal, proving RPA doesn't suck 100% balls.

I think many of the band songs on UH (and b sides) are mediocre. Richard's songs are generally better. So I really don't care about hearing a bunch of half formed "songs" that didn't make the cut. Still, sucks that rpa is being an ******* again.

Last point, I think I read some discussion of a Forth reissue? That was a joke, right? Forth never should been made. It's utter crap and a stain on their great legacy. I laughed pretty hard though, so if it was a joke, good one.


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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Tresilaze wrote:
Sympathy For the demos should be there, as should outtakes from Nick's time. The contents for this release are so logical that tge fight over it is more annoying than the reason. This is a celebrated album with a great story - just tell the f*cking story. It's already been written ffs.


Couldn't have said it better.

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:07 pm 
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blue vinyl wrote:
Last point, I think I read some discussion of a Forth reissue? That was a joke, right? Forth never should been made. It's utter crap and a stain on their great legacy. I laughed pretty hard though, so if it was a joke, good one.


Nah, no joke. That was me.
I liked Forth. Swap Valium Skies & Rather Be for any of the B-Sides or bonus tracks & it's even more of a belter. As great as the first two albums? No, but there were some brilliant moments on it. Wouldn't need a remaster, but I think an expanded edition with all of the extra tracks & some unreleased material would go down well. Even just to put a final stamp on the band & their catalogue. I do think it will come out. The album went in at number 1; When I broached the subject, Nick didn't say no; The video that was posted here (Ain't The Future A Trip) was allegedly a track from the Forth sessions & referenced Universal Music Group as the label on the video stamp. They handled the first two reissues. The video disappeared within 24 hours; the Urban Hymns set is supposed to be out towards the end of the year, 2018 will mark 10 years since Forth. I can see them bundling the release, like the first two albums. Definitive, conclusive proof? No. But I think there is a good chance of one.
Commence laughter ....

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Tresilaze wrote:
Sympathy For the demos should be there


And yet wasn't - funny that. The sessions that laid the foundations of the album and the songs that resonate with people are largely (or completely?) absent from that proposed bonus CD. You automatically assume bad faith on Richard's part and good on Nick's - talk about naive. The bonus disc was clearly very deliberately weighed towards Nick related recordings (who was, surprise surprise, involved in compiling it) - suspicious of that, Richard probably called his bluff and picked issue with a songwriting credit to derail it.


Last edited by graceadelica on Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:38 pm 
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I like Forth


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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:57 pm 
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graceadelica wrote:
Tresilaze wrote:
Sympathy For the demos should be there


And yet wasn't - funny that. The sessions that laid the foundations of the album and the songs that resonate with people are largely (or completely?) absent from that proposed bonus CD. You automatically assume bad faith on Richard's part and good on Nick's - talk about naive. The bonus disc was clearly very deliberately weighed towards Nick related recordings (who was, surprise surprise, involved in compiling it) - suspicious of that, Richard probably called his bluff and picked issue with a songwriting credit to derail it.


That was only one disc of potential tracks for the reissue. We don't know if there are other discs planned for it that may include these demos, if the proposed disc was to be included in full or if only select tracks from it were going to be chosen. If Nick didn't appear on "Sympathy for the Demos" why would he have them in his possession to submit for a reissue?
I do find it funny that Richard is apparently "uninvolved" in the compiling of this collection, yet has a live recording ready to go for it's inclusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Pointless Urban Hymns Deluxe Box Speculation Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Not a fan, but the new u2 Joshua tree box is how you do box sets. Ashcroft should take note


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